Sample thread of how NOT to get help

[Mathstud28]

Originally Posted by Jhevon

haha! i don't remember that. i'll look it up

EDIT: I can't find it...

Integrate Sqrt[x^2-a]?

[o_O]

Just to add on ..

I find it incredibly irritating how a member posts a perfect reply to a question just to find that right underneath it, we have the OP simply saying, "i dun get it. can some pls help me? i give lots of thx points!11!111"

Puh-leeze. We aren't that pathetic here. We expect some effort on your part to specify exactly what you are having problems with. It pains me to see threads where the helper vainly replies to the OP's "i dun get it. i don't get that either. what? someone else help me??"

I'm not saying we get this exact scenario too too much but we do get quite a bit of useless feedback.

[/rant]

[mr fantastic]

Originally Posted by o_O

Just to add on ..

I find it incredibly irritating how a member posts a perfect reply to a question just to find that right underneath it, we have the OP simply saying, "i dun get it. can some pls help me? i give lots of thx points!11!111"
[snip]

You forgot the bit where they say "I can't be bothered making any effort to think about what you've written, I just want the solution and the answer so cough it up".

Again, the reciprocal responsibility .... If a member spends the time crafting a reply, then the OP has a responsibility to carefully read and reflect upon the reply. If the OP is still struggling after having done that, then s/he has a responsibility to say where abouts in the reply they get lost. If the reply has been carefully read and reflected upon, and if the OP has the will to learn and understand, then s/he will be able to do this.

A reply such as ""i dun get it. can some pls help me? i give lots of thx points!11!111" is insulting - it will typically mean "I can't be bothered making any effort to think about what you've written. So I can't say where I'm still stuck. I just want the solution and the answer so cough it up".

Such feedback should be answered with "What part of the reply do you not understand?"

(Unless the reply is a poor one, of course).

[tester85]

Just to add a bit of my comment, it is ok if no action has been taken regarding this comment. This is just a valuable gesture to get the entire message of this thread across. I noticed that this sticky thread is only in the urgent homework column, i think it would be great if it is displayed on the other forum section as well.

[frankpham12]

what he said

[Jenberl]

Originally Posted by Mush

And please, people... make the effort to learn how to use LaTeX!

Don't try to post complex problems using ASCII characters and ambiguous bracketing/bunching of terms!

Hi,

How or where do you learn about LaTeX?
I've never heard of it before reading your post.
I didn't find any worthy help for it from Googling it.
Open Office has a "Math" application (that I don't know how to use either).
Can we copy and paste out of that?
I've wondered how to make our math problems look "proper."

Thanks, just curious...
Jen

[mr fantastic]

Originally Posted by Jenberl

Hi,

How or where do you learn about LaTeX?
I've never heard of it before reading your post.
I didn't find any worthy help for it from Googling it.
Open Office has a "Math" application (that I don't know how to use either).
Can we copy and paste out of that?
I've wondered how to make our math problems look "proper."

Thanks, just curious...
Jen

http://www.mathhelpforum.com/math-help/latex-help/

[Moo]

Someone wanting help, especially free help, should have the courtesy to make it as easy as possible for that help to be given.

Maybe it has already been mentioned, but there is something very upsetting :
someone replies to your thread, gives a partial answer or hints or the beginning.
And then the original poster says :
"Please can you show full working/all the steps ?"

If any of these people is reading it, please read the answer you've been given first.
Sometimes we can see an answer from the OP within 3 minutes, while understanding the given replies would have taken more

Edit: As a sidenote to this, it really annoys me when I see users who only ask questions and never say a word of thanks or click the Thanks button. All you see is the next thread with another question .....

Completely agree.
The best example for that is magentarita. He thanks (almost - sometimes he forgets several threads among the numerous ones he created xD) everybody who answers him, with words, and (less importantly) with thanks points.
It's quite extreme, one doesn't have to do the exact same thing. Because sometimes there are not helpful answers.



Anyway, as a conclusion, I would say that one who wants answers should :

• be patient
• show respect to the one(s) who answered his thread. This includes the fact that the OP has to think on his own, to try understanding if he's given hints instead of asking for full solution. This also includes thanking the one(s) who helped him (by a word, a PM, anything).
• make your thread readable : no excess use of smilies or punctuations , no pompous sentences either (like "I'm dead if I don't solve it", "For G** sake, please help me", etc...)
• never offer money, that's insulting our choice of being benevolent.

[Jhevon]

Originally Posted by Moo

• never offer money, that's insulting our choice of being benevolent.

Amen!

[tsal15]

To all mods and helpers,

Have I done anything wrong to get no recent reply?

I read somewhere on this thread, that people who read posts in the 'urgent homework help' realise that the assistance is urgently required...But, frankly, I don't think people actually think this way...

I don't doubt that there is an arrogant expectation amongst some members of this forum who receive help, and I totally don't encourage it. But I think if you decide to give your time, energy and expertise to a particular thread, that you should follow through, all the way. I hate 'one-posters' (people who reply with one post and then never hear from them again). One-posters are unhelpful (i think they just want the bonus thanks points, which i give regardless if they're helpful or not...) and should be removed from this forum (just my opinion).

I must admit I'm not the brightest of maths students, but I do put a lot of effort to understand all of the jargon. Its unfortunate and disappointing, when let down...

tsal15

P.S. I hope I get no infraction for venting my spleen...
P.S.S. As an example of this please refer to this:
http://www.mathhelpforum.com/math-he...subspaces.html ----- its been 3 days without a reply... I usually wouldn't care, but because its an urgent question, 2 days is too long for a reply (don't you think?). The reply doesn't have to be from the person who provided valuable/invaluable assistance, but anyone...

[Moo]

Hello,

P.S. I hope I get no infraction for venting my spleen...

Well, I think you have a good point here ^^'

P.S.S. As an example of this please refer to this:
Vectors and Subspaces ----- its been 3 days without a reply... I usually wouldn't care, but because its an urgent question, 2 days is too long for a reply (don't you think?). The reply doesn't have to be from the person who provided valuable/invaluable assistance, but anyone...

The problem is that people who answer can't remember all the threads they've replied to ! And sometimes, people who answer are off for a few days...
So if you really want an answer, you can send a PM to one of those who answered, asking for further enlightement ? Personnally, it doesn't bother me, maybe it does for others...

[Serialkisser]

Seeing the answer of a problem helps one to understand it better than getting tips. One is able to follow the steps and analyze it. Having the answer often helped me more in understanding than someone telling me what to do

[mr fantastic]

Originally Posted by Serialkisser

Seeing the answer of a problem helps one to understand it better than getting tips. One is able to follow the steps and analyze it. Having the answer often helped me more in understanding than someone telling me what to do

You might think that's the case but it's not. Maths is not a spectator sport. You learn it by doing it. Not by watching someone else doing it.

[janvdl]

Originally Posted by Serialkisser

Seeing the answer of a problem helps one to understand it better than getting tips. One is able to follow the steps and analyze it. Having the answer often helped me more in understanding than someone telling me what to do

I agree wholeheartedly (Sorry Mr F!), and also give full answers if I think the OP is interested in learning.

[tsal15]

Originally Posted by mr fantastic

You might think that's the case but it's not. Maths is not a spectator sport. You learn it by doing it. Not by watching someone else doing it.

Everyone has their own way of learning maths. I actually prefer to see the actual final answer. Then if I have no idea of how it was achieved I ask the helper (on MHF) to elaborate a little (i.e. major steps taken...), then I'll apply the process to as many similar questions to understand why the process was chosen... Other people may know the process beforehand, and only need someone (a MHF Helper or anyone) to show them just one step or even just the final answer (depending on the question of course) for it to click...

But, obviously, you can't sit on your behind and expect things to happen...its the same with everything in life...practise makes perfect - isn't that how the cliche goes? how did we all learn to walk? someone guided us, and picked us up when we fell (usually our parents or guardians), and we practised and practised till we were able to walk, skip, hop and jump...and in Carl Lewis' case, he practised so well that he was a world record holder of the 100m sprint back in the old days...

Hope no one's upset by my two cents...