Sample thread of how NOT to get help

Jameson · #1 $Old$ December 24th, 2008, 03:56 PM

Thread title - OMGGGZZZZ I NEED HELP NOW PPLLZZZ!!!!!!!

This is the worst kind of title. Make the title descriptive of your problem and don't ask for help in it. We know you want help.

Body - I have these 10 problems due tomorrow, what are the answers?!?!? I need someone to do them fast!

We are not here to give you answers, we are here to help you understand math. If you do not try at all, we won't help you. Show what you have attempted and what you are stuck on. If you can't get started, explain your thought process. Try something, anything, but never nothing.

If you follow these guidelines it will work out better for everyone.

Best,
Jameson

Mush · #2 $Old$ December 24th, 2008, 06:34 PM

And please, people... make the effort to learn how to use LaTeX!

Don't try to post complex problems using ASCII characters and ambiguous bracketing/bunching of terms!

Chop Suey · #3 $Old$ December 24th, 2008, 07:09 PM

I don't mind ASCII characters as long as the OP arranges his/her question with parentheses, etc. with no ambiguity. People may not have the time to learn LaTeX.

Example:
x/(1+2x+x^2)

Non-example:
x/1 + 2x + x^100/20 + e^x

Skalkaz · #4 $Old$ December 25th, 2008, 12:00 AM

My favourite is one link without any comment.

Mathstud28 · #5 $Old$ December 25th, 2008, 12:03 AM

Key point. Be respectful to those that help you since that is exactly what they are trying to do...help you. So even if you dont get it...or you need it "really quick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111" this doesnt mean getting impatient or disrespectful. Case and point is that one post where that one guy said "Jhevon...you are a very stupid man"...I love Jhevon but

Grandad · #6 $Old$ December 25th, 2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jameson $View Post$

We are not here to give you answers, we are here to help you understand math.

May I endorse this, and follow it by saying that, if we're trying to answer a request for help, it's often more helpful to give more explanation and less direct solution - the problem being, of course, that it's often easier to solve a problem for someone than to show them how to solve it for themselves!

Grandad

mr fantastic · #7 $Old$ December 26th, 2008, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jameson $View Post$

* Thread title - OMGGGZZZZ I NEED HELP NOW PPLLZZZ!!!!!!!

This is the worst kind of title. Make the title descriptive of your problem and don't ask for help in it. We know you want help.

*Body - I have these 10 problems due tomorrow, what are the answers?!?!? I need someone to do them fast!

We are not here to give you answers, we are here to help you understand math. If you do not try at all, we won't help you. Show what you have attempted and what you are stuck on. If you can't get started, explain your thought process. Try something, anything, but never nothing.

If you follow these guidelines it will work out better for everyone.

Best,
Jameson

On this theme, overuse of smilies and symbols such as '?' is to be avoided.

mr fantastic · #8 $Old$ December 27th, 2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jameson $View Post$

* Thread title - OMGGGZZZZ I NEED HELP NOW PPLLZZZ!!!!!!!

This is the worst kind of title. Make the title descriptive of your problem and don't ask for help in it. We know you want help.

*Body - I have these 10 problems due tomorrow, what are the answers?!?!? I need someone to do them fast!

We are not here to give you answers, we are here to help you understand math. If you do not try at all, we won't help you. Show what you have attempted and what you are stuck on. If you can't get started, explain your thought process. Try something, anything, but never nothing.

If you follow these guidelines it will work out better for everyone.

Best,
Jameson

Re: Thread titles.

And give new threads a new title. Otherwise things get confusing.

It doesn't help to have several different threads created by the same member that are all titled "Question on matrices" etc.

Jhevon · #9 $Old$ December 27th, 2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathstud28 $View Post$

Case and point is that one post where that one guy said "Jhevon...you are a very stupid man"

haha! i don't remember that. i'll look it up

EDIT: I can't find it...

mr fantastic · #10 $Old$ December 27th, 2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhevon $View Post$

haha! i don't remember that. i'll look it up

EDIT: I can't find it...

A Moderator probably gave it the treatment it deserved.

mr fantastic · #11 $Old$ December 27th, 2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chop Suey $View Post$

I don't mind ASCII characters as long as the OP arranges his/her question with parentheses, etc. with no ambiguity. People may not have the time to learn LaTeX.

Example:
x/(1+2x+x^2)

Non-example:
x/1 + 2x + x^100/20 + e^x

Learning how to format a fraction, exponent or radical in LaTex should take less time than the time it often takes to post a reply.

A member expects someone to take the time and effort to post an intelligible reply. There's a reciprocal responsibility, in my opinion.

(I have sometimes been tempted to reply in kind in some cases but alas those days are gone).

Jhevon · #12 $Old$ December 27th, 2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr fantastic $View Post$

A moderator probably gave it the treatment it deserved.

hehe, thanks

i think we should also say a word about attachments. i don't like opening attachments to get to (sometimes a lot of) questions. one of my pet peeves...

anyway, the point is, depending on what mood i am, i avoid even looking at questions in that case, and i am sure other members ignore attachments no matter what mood they are in

mr fantastic · #13 $Old$ December 27th, 2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhevon $View Post$

hehe, thanks

i think we should also say a word about attachments. i don't like opening attachments to get to (sometimes a lot of) questions. one of my pet peeves...

anyway, the point is, depending on what mood i am, i avoid even looking at questions in that case, and i am sure other members ignore attachments no matter what mood they are in

Again, it gets back to the reciprocal responsibility.

Someone wanting help, especially free help, should have the courtesy to make it as easy as possible for that help to be given.

There is a sometimes a certain arrogent expectation that the people who give their time, energy and expertise to help are servants. This expectation is typically expressed either by words or formatting. This attitude is unacceptable.

I have sometmies been sorely tempted to close posts that display this attitude (as well as giving an infraction of course), with a concluding post of my own requiring the user to show more respect to the Forum members.

Edit: As a sidenote to this, it really annoys me when I see users who only ask questions and never say a word of thanks or click the Thanks button. All you see is the next thread with another question .....

Soroban · #14 $Old$ December 28th, 2008, 09:53 AM

I've noted a pattern is the supplementary comments, too.

For a period, the common phrase was:
. . "I know the answer. I just don't know how to get it."

I found this both amusing and distressing.

Suppose your surgeon said,
"I know the result of a quadruple-bypass procedure (you live),
I just don't understand the in-between steps."

Lately, the favorite phrase is "I don't have a clue."
This imparts absolutely no information to us.

Number of times I've asked "Exactly where is your difficulty?": 113
Number of responses: 0

[rant]

For those of you, dropping BIG HINTS to me
. . . . for the way I answer questions,
. . . . . . . PLEASE STOP IT.

I am not going to change my ways now
(38 years of teaching college-level math
and the last 9 years on these sites).

I have had excellent results and have never received ccmplaints
(from students or administrators) that I spoon-feed my students
and thereby actually do damage to their impressionable minds.

Yes, I know the saying "Teach a man to fish"; it's a good one.

Yet I can imagine the following exchange (via cellphone):

"Now bait the hook."
"How do I do that?"
"Put the worm on the hook."
"What's the hook?"
"See that curved thing with a pointy end? That's the hook."
"Okay."
"Put the worm on it."
"It keeps falling off."
"No, stick the hook through the worm."
"Really?"
"Yes, go ahead, do it."
"(Eewww!) Okay."
"Now put the hook in the water."
"It won't reach."
"Okay, reel out some line so it reaches the water."
"How do you do that?"
"Turn the crank on the reel."
"It's getting shorter!"
"Turn it the other way."
"Oh, okay."
"Lower the hook into the water."
"How far?"
"Oh, maybe two or three feet."
"Okay, now what?"
"You wait."
"For what?"
"For a fish to take the bait."
"That's it? I just sit here?"
"Right."
"And whether I eat or not depends on the whim of some fish?"
"Um, I wouldn't put it that way ..."
"Well, I would! .Forget it! .I'm getting a Big Mac!"

[/rant]

tester85 · #15 $Old$ December 28th, 2008, 11:34 PM

I am surprised that you really keep a count of these kind of things. Two Thumbs Up 4 U with respect and by the way you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soroban $View Post$

Number of times I've asked "Exactly where is your difficulty?": 113
Number of responses: 0