I would like to propose the following topic:

Should affimative action be promoted in schools and the work place?

I will let my opponent choose which side he/she will take (either he/she will support/be against affirmative action in school and the work place). I will defend what he/she doesn't choose.

I would like to see it play out as follows:

1) OP's opening statement; make first point
2) My opening statement; make first point; rebuttle of OP's first point
3) OP's rebuttle of my first point; make second point
4) My rebuttle of my OP's second point; make second point
5) OP's rebuttle of my second point; concluding remarks
6) My concluding remarks

Also to be noted:

Each opening remark should be no more than two paragraphs.

The first and second points should be no more than five paragraphs each.

Each rebuttle should be no more than three paragraphs.

Each concluding remark should be no more than two paragraphs.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Is anyone up for this?

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Absolutely. I have been arguing with liberals (obviously I am against it) on this issue for such a long time already.
I would be willing to do it if no one else wants to step in, but I have to debate Mr. Fantastic first.

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"Democracy has proved only that the best way to gain power
over people is to assure the people that they are ruling
themselves. Once they believe that, they make wonderfully
submissive slaves." - Joseph Sobran

Sounds good!

(I'm against it too btw..so let's see how this plays out...hahaha)

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Good topic, Chris L T521.

I would love to take the opposing side to this. TPH will be already busy with his other debate, so maybe he'll let me do this one If not I can wait for another topic.

You can go after this one. We can be on the same team. If teams are not allowed then I can send you what I would have used as an opposition in this debate. Then you can put it into the middle of the debate if you like.

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"Democracy has proved only that the best way to gain power
over people is to assure the people that they are ruling
themselves. Once they believe that, they make wonderfully
submissive slaves." - Joseph Sobran

What is "affirmative action"? If I find it's something I have strong views on I'll watch this with interest (and maybe even rant on my own account).

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"No matter how fast or how far you run, you're still in the space where you are." -- Russell

It is this progressive idea that minorities (blacks, gays, women*, so on and so forth) must be given special advantage over the majority. In most cases affirmative action is for blacks and the group they get advantage over are white males. Thus, as an example consider a college. A college must divide the people who enter it into percentages. Say 20% must be blacks and 50% must be women, so only 30% can be white males. This means if you have reached limit of 30% for white males you must close off registration for white males and only now accept blacks and women. This is basically what it is, you can find more details if you really care to.

*)Why are women considered to be minorities anyway, there are more of them than men?

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"Democracy has proved only that the best way to gain power
over people is to assure the people that they are ruling
themselves. Once they believe that, they make wonderfully
submissive slaves." - Joseph Sobran

Oh yeah, I know this concept as "positive discrimination". Sucks golf balls through hosepipes. It's why I quite the Social Democratic Party in 1984, soon after its inception because that was one of the main planks of its manifesto.

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"No matter how fast or how far you run, you're still in the space where you are." -- Russell

This is hardly a non-biased description. This is Wikipedia's summary of affirmative action:

"...policies that take race, ethnicity, or gender into consideration in an attempt to promote equal opportunity or increase ethnic or other forms of diversity. The focus of such policies ranges from employment and education to public contracting and health programs. The impetus towards affirmative action is twofold: to maximize diversity in all levels of society, along with its presumed benefits, and to redress perceived disadvantages due to overt, institutional, or involuntary discrimination."

Let's not use these threads to make personal comments on issues. They are for proposing topics, accepting debates and setting terms. I would love to somehow force TPH to have to argue to "for" side on this though.

Me too! Otherwise, I'll have to argue for it...

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I doubt I can come up with any argument for it. Because of all the arguments I heard people give for affirmative action not one of them can I respect. So how can I possibly give an argument for it that I can consider to be a good one?

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"Democracy has proved only that the best way to gain power
over people is to assure the people that they are ruling
themselves. Once they believe that, they make wonderfully
submissive slaves." - Joseph Sobran

My dear Hacker. IF you're as good as you say you are, you should be able to come up with at least one argument that might make someone with your philosophy at least stop and think for a while ....

Yes, I know it's a big if, my dear chap. And I perfectly understand why you might want to spend your time arguing here when the game is (or should be) afoot elsewhere.

You do realise, my good man, that what you say here will be used against you elsewhere. I should loathe to debate someone who has a gun shot wound to one foot and is taking aim at the other .....

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There are two things you should never try to prove: the impossible and the obvious.

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low and achieving our mark. (Michelangelo Buonarroti)

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If you don't want to argue for it, I'll do it. I have a couple points that may seem "respectable" to you.

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Everyone - these proposal threads are solely for setting up the debate. Please don't make any comments on the issue itself in these threads.

Its been over a week since I proposed this topic. I'm way too busy this weekend to partake in the debate, and I'm not sure when I'll find the time to do so.

Thus, if someone wants to debate TPH [if he's still up to it] in my place, feel free to let us know. This is a good topic to debate, and I don't want to see it go to waste!

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