Dear all,

What are your views on Mathematical talent, ability, and skill?

For sake of broaching a meaningful discussion, I'll throw some ideas:

Of course, you, I, or our friend Joe, would be able to calculate 1 + 1 = 2. Regardless of the matter where anyone is able to do certain mathematical operations with equal ease, how do we get to know what Mathematical talent, ability, and skill are, and for sake of more practical concern, do we possess anyone of these?

A certain person in the Mathematics class (speaking of university level) who seldom takes notes, easily gets to know the gist of the subject, speedily hacks to the core of the problem -- more often -- is our prime candidate for mathematically gifted/talented/able. But what about the rest of us, who work through a problem like a tortoise, spend long hours hacking at a trivial problem, tread on stray paths before finding the right one? Of course, I identify myself as one of the later types, who in spite of being "slow" are fairly "quick" in assimilating the mathematical stuff once explained to them. Where do we lie in the spectrum?

Can hard semi-intelligent effort better our mathematical talents, abilities, and skills?

Please share your opinion.


PS, I do manage to find the solutions to the problems; but timed exams are something Idread where I am expected to come up with correct insights in a given amount of time. This pressure along with fear of failure really inhibits my performance. Suggest something or anything for this matter.

Hello Steppenwolf

We had a similar discussion a little while ago. I expressed my views then - so here's the post Are you born with it

Grandad

To be fair you have the answer of this ........

You might need more practise than what you do now....

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I said this many times on the forum already so this is going to be repetative. Most people are not going to like what I say but I have to say it because the truth does not change whether you like it or not. You are completely determined by how you were born. Everything about you can all be determined the moment you were born as a baby. I know most people have this fantasy that "everybody is equal", but this is non-sense. A person born with a half a brain will never be equal to a normal human being. Your personality and your talents have been determined by your birth. Someone is going to counter-respond to me by saying, "but if you are a hard working person then you can achieve success". I will respond to that by saying, the hard-working personality type is also determined by birth. Furthermore, if you are hard-working but you lack the talent then no results will come forth from this.

If you already have some talent for what you like and you work at it then you can improve it much better than what it is now. If you are good at math and like it, then you should pursue it, you will get much better at it. But this will not imply that you would turn into one of the great mathematicians from history, because that can only be achieved with superior talent achieved completey from birth.

I know we teach in high-school and in colleges to students that, "you can be whatever you want to be". But this is just a bunch of non-sense all to make them feel happy. You should find what you like doing, and if it is math, then great go ahead and learn more about it - you will get better, just do not have the expectation of turning into Riemann.

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"Democracy has proved only that the best way to gain power
over people is to assure the people that they are ruling
themselves. Once they believe that, they make wonderfully
submissive slaves." - Joseph Sobran

Assuming the deterministic position to be correct, how will one identify "some" talent? I mean there is no mathematical way to quantify that; nor can there be any qualitative way to grade "some" talent on any scale. All we have are our crude estimates based on our life experience(s) and interaction(s) with those who do or use mathematics. And I won't be wrong if anyone or everyone for that matter lays claim to "some" talent in mathematics for if he/she hadn't it in the first place he/she wouldn't have developed it to a fair degree.

So the question(s) really should be:

1) Should I attempt something (Mathematics) only when my attempts yield fruits quickly?

2) Should I stop attempting something only because I am not good at it?

3) Should I attempt at something just for sake of that very something? (I know it's not very sound from utilitarian perspective; but I care less)

Also what we ignore most of the times is that those who are born with a specific brain for abstract mathematics comprise only a small fraction of those who use/do mathematics; and for the others mathematical knowledge comes tutored, mathematical skills come tutored. And that makes a significant reason for investing in mathematical teaching to better the majority of the lot who wants to do/use mathematics. The goal is not to restrict mathematics to an elitist pursuit, but to make it further accessible and less horrid. And that in my opinion is the real goal of any other person attempting at mathematics: to make it accessible to oneself and others.

By profession and by my education, I am an electrical engineer but I have profound appreciation for mathematics, and it is this appreciation which drives me rather than the need to prove to myself that how intelligent or capable I am if I solve this problem or if I prove this theorem in this much time constraint.

I will experiment for a month or so, and will let you know whether increased practice makes any difference.

You sound like someone who is good with math. Therefore, you should pursue it.
A lot of success in math will come from having experience in it.

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"Democracy has proved only that the best way to gain power
over people is to assure the people that they are ruling
themselves. Once they believe that, they make wonderfully
submissive slaves." - Joseph Sobran

If you enjoy it then do it.

CB

__________________
Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.

Giordano Bruno

Hm.

Well, does that mean Richard Feynman is wrong?

YouTube Video

Yes.

Grandad

Really. Funny how - discounting any actual disability - children of adoptive parents tend to follow the trend of their socio-economic demographic, regardless of the fact that their parents only provided them with their socio-economic status - not with their DNA.

No doubt, no one comes into this world a blank slate. You are partially determined by how you are born, but not completely. You are also shaped by society, family, the opportunities you are given, and the choices you make. And not just early in life, either. Even older people who keep their minds engaged in new and different ways expand their mental capacity and can delay the onset of Alzheimer's and other similar ailments.

I do not doubt that there are a few gifted people born with great potential and aptitudes, just as there are disadvantaged people born with disabilities - and that most people have limits. But there are gifted people who do nothing and disabled people who achieve great things. There is a place in this world for many happy scientists, musicians, artists, and athletes who will not be the most famous or the best, but who will do well in their pursuits and be happy - and that is success as I define it.

The entire universe is completely determined by the Laws of Nature. Not just you. Everything that has existed, exists, and shall exist is all the consequence of the Natural Laws obeyed by mathematical equations. Even if you do not accept this concept, you must accept that people are not just partially determined by how they are born but they are almost completely deterined by how they are born. These are the scientific results. Now I happen to think people are completely determined by how they are born but whatever, even if I am wrong, you still must accept that they are almost completely determined by how they are born. Thus, what you do to a child and what you teach the child shall not transform him into a Georg Riemann.

A retard will remain a retard, there is nothing you can do about it. People are naturally stupid. You can put all money into trying to make a retard smarter but this resistance is futile. I am not saying that average students should not be taught knowledge in good schools. I am just pointing to the human weakness of hoping that we can change our outcomes.

Of course, there is one way you can make people smarter. You can kill out the dumb ones and let the smart ones remain. This artifical selection process shall choose the more intelligent onces. But, certainly, I do not support this kind of mentality in any sort of way at all.

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"Democracy has proved only that the best way to gain power
over people is to assure the people that they are ruling
themselves. Once they believe that, they make wonderfully
submissive slaves." - Joseph Sobran

First sentance is a tautology, laws of nature are by definition the laws that determine the outcomes of events. Mathematical equations and science is just an approximation to these laws.

You give too much importance to natural talent. Of course you do need to be born with it, but enviromental factors play a massive factor in the realisation of the talent. People are more determines by how they were raised than their DNA. It appears that smart parents have smart kids and this is generally true, mostly owing to the fact that smart parents put more emphasis on learning and education than most parents.
Retardation is usually the cause of a disability (such as down syndrome) and as such cannot really be helped. Resistance is not really futile, a retard will not become a genious, that is true, however, they can be nurtured into an average inteligence.

You are obviously living in a world with a later version of Quantum Mechanics than that apparently in force over here

CB

__________________
Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.

Giordano Bruno

He is. Here is a proof:

. Hence TPH is in the extended real number system. So he is in an extended real world with a later version of quantum mechanics.