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Old May 11th, 2009, 10:21 PM
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Hey, was just browsing through some old posts trying to find an example of how I used latex one time (how to put text in that isn't rendered in italics, still can't find it, anyone know?), and I noticed TPH's signature.

I didn't see any threads on it, so someone explain it to me, because it is so different from what I remember him as being like.

For example, it says he supports philosophy, but I remember him loathing philosophy. (in some senses, I am nihilist too) It says he is libertarian and communist, and it has a quote by Freud, I don't understand it, this is very different from the TPH I remember, and so I wanted to stop in long enough to find out what it's about.
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  #2  
Old May 11th, 2009, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by angel.white View Post
Hey, was just browsing through some old posts trying to find an example of how I used latex one time (how to put text in that isn't rendered in italics, still can't find it, anyone know?), and I noticed TPH's signature.
use \text{} when you use the math tags:

\text{``Hello World!'' looks better than }``Hello World!''

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I didn't see any threads on it, so someone explain it to me, because it is so different from what I remember him as being like.

For example, it says he supports philosophy, but I remember him loathing philosophy. (in some senses, I am nihilist too) It says he is libertarian and communist, and it has a quote by Freud, I don't understand it, this is very different from the TPH I remember, and so I wanted to stop in long enough to find out what it's about.
From what I know in talking with TPH, his view on philosophy and many things have changed in the last several months. So I guess you should talk to the expert (TPH himself) regarding this.
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  #3  
Old May 15th, 2009, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by angel.white View Post
because it is so different from what I remember him as being like.
I always change. I sometimes read through my old e-mails, 1 month old, and I find one's that I disagree with.
As long as you can convince me of an argument sufficiently well I will change.

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For example, it says he supports philosophy, but I remember him loathing philosophy.
I still hate philosophy. I was referring to certain types of philosophies back then and I still dislike them. I did however develop an interest in the philosophy of the mind.

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(in some senses, I am nihilist too)


I do not agree with 1a, that is just stupid. But I strongly agree with 1b and 2.

By the way, existentialist are nihilists on denial. Please do not be one, they are too cowardly.

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It says he is libertarian and communist,
This is hard for me to say, but, um, well, .., hmm, I now hate communism.
We should stop caring for the collective and focus more on individualism.


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and it has a quote by Freud, I don't understand it, this is very different from the TPH I remember, and so I wanted to stop in long enough to find out what it's about.
I probably changed in every single belief system except in math. My views on math are unchanged . That is again why I think math is so beautiful. But in anything else I cannot really think of anything where I did not change.

Much of my change is because of YouTube. There were some (in particular one person) people who said things that I really liked and they influenced me in some ways.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 09:37 PM
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As long as you can convince me of an argument sufficiently well I will change.
A wonderful perspective. I try to be this way as much as I can, though I admit I do have biases too. I think I used to be much more open than I am now, when I first lost my religion, and didn't believe in truth for a few years. Now I have re-evaluated a lot of things and come to certain conclusions, I find myself sometimes bigoted towards these conclusions, and have to recognize that, and try to stop it (not always easy).
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I do not agree with 1a, that is just stupid. But I strongly agree with 1b and 2.
I agree with 1b and 2 also, I have very strong opinions about truth, I think I have truth mostly figured out. In some sense, I say nothing can be known with 100% certainty. But I do reject that there is no basis for determining what is likely and unlikely to be true. My model for truth explains a lot of apparent discrepancies, it is based on scope and domain.
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This is hard for me to say, but, um, well, .., hmm, I now hate communism.
We should stop caring for the collective and focus more on individualism.
I don't know. I mostly respect libertarians (like I would respect someone who voted for Ron Paul, even though I wouldn't), because I think they probably have put a hundred times more thought into their beliefs than Democrats and Republicans, but I don't know what I am for politically. I only know I am against Capitalism. I mostly stay out of political discussions, unless it is over a specific topic that I have an opinion on.
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I probably changed in every single belief system except in math. My views on math are unchanged . That is again why I think math is so beautiful. But in anything else I cannot really think of anything where I did not change.
That is awesome, and I completely respect you for it. It is not easy to challenge our own beliefs, even for me, who at one point rejected all truth in every form whatsoever. I am glad you are thinking, you have a logical mind, I'd be interested to hear what kinds of thoughts you have, what decisions you have and why.
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Much of my change is because of YouTube. There were some (in particular one person) people who said things that I really liked and they influenced me in some ways.
What is the channel? I am subscribed to quite a few youtube channels, I'll listen to a few of the videos.
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Old May 15th, 2009, 11:33 PM
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A wonderful perspective. I try to be this way as much as I can, though I admit I do have biases too. I think I used to be much more open than I am now, when I first lost my religion, and didn't believe in truth for a few years. Now I have re-evaluated a lot of things and come to certain conclusions, I find myself sometimes bigoted towards these conclusions, and have to recognize that, and try to stop it (not always easy).
Biases are not always bad. People treat biases (especially at college) as if they are always to be avoided. But biases are necessary and helpful at times. For example, I have a bias against big government. When some one says, "there ought to be a law", I feel uncomfortable. I do not necessarily reject it but I do lean on the side with thinking that law is going to mess things over even more.

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I agree with 1b and 2 also, I have very strong opinions about truth, I think I have truth mostly figured out. In some sense, I say nothing can be known with 100% certainty. But I do reject that there is no basis for determining what is likely and unlikely to be true. My model for truth explains a lot of apparent discrepancies, it is based on scope and domain.
It depends what you mean by truth. Mathematical truth is quite simple. You pick an axiom system you want to use and that which can be deduced from within the system is said to be "true". However, I do not think you refer to this when you say "truth" because then true is relative to the axiomatic system that we choose. Also, by "truth" I do not think you mean some sort of logical-statement truth because if you say there is no truth then you have commited a paradox (if there is not truth, then the statement there is no truth is true, which is a problem). Thus, I think when you say "truth" you are referring to some sort of knowledge about our universe and our place in it. Then I agree there is no certain way to determine that objective truth (I ruled out solipism because it is a subjective experience).

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I don't know. I mostly respect libertarians (like I would respect someone who voted for Ron Paul, even though I wouldn't),
I never vote. But if I had to pick someone it would have been him.

Quote:
because I think they probably have put a hundred times more thought into their beliefs than Democrats and Republicans,
I dislike both liberals and conservatives. Both have no principles. The conservatives are about preserving America how it is now, while the liberals are about being socially acceptable - those are not principles. Another dislike I have to liberals is that "liberal" is a dishonest term, it has nothing to do with liberty, I would be in favor if they called themselves "progressive". If I was forced two choose between those two parties I would pick liberal absolutely. Because even though I cannot agree with them much I at least understand where they are coming from and they are trying to make America a better place.
Quote:
I mostly stay out of political discussions, unless it is over a specific topic that I have an opinion on.
I hate political discussions. They are not that interesting or intelligent. The only form of politics I like is the different philosophies about governing people. That is a much more interesting discussion, it is based on principles, but typical political discussions have nothing to do with that at all.

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What is the channel? I am subscribed to quite a few youtube channels, I'll listen to a few of the videos.
TheAmazingAtheist

He had the biggest influence on me. Before him I never really cared about to do with government. He turned me into a freedom-loving individual. I also like pennsays, that is the channel of Penn Jillette (the guy from Penn & Teller).

One thing that I love about YouTube is how many different kinds of people you find there. You have a ton of libertarians, a lot of anarachists, a few communits, some neo-Nazis, even white supremacists, so on and so forth. People you would never hear on TV because they are too crazy, but on YouTube you can find all these people and watch what they had to say. So YouTube turns into a true marketplace of ideas.
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Old May 16th, 2009, 12:24 AM
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Biases are not always bad. People treat biases (especially at college) as if they are always to be avoided. But biases are necessary and helpful at times.
I will grant you this. They can be beneficial or detrimental. For me, in the past, they have been exceedingly detrimental, so I tend to associate them with this, however, if I had to completely re-evaluate everything, every time I considered anything, I surely could not function, so in this sense, a bias towards a conclusion can represent an unbiased evaluation which arrived at that conclusion. Essentially, a base to work from.
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It depends what you mean by truth.
By truth, I simply mean the actual state and relationship between states of any given thing. (I just made that up, it seems to represent my position right now, but I reserve the right to shift that definition if a flaw is noted)
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I never vote. But if I had to pick someone it would have been him.
I honestly never did either, and I know why this is the case, but TBH, I do wish I had voted for Cynthia McKinney. There is at least a 50% probability that I will vote in the next election. Had I discovered glassbooth.org sooner, I would have had more time to evaluate my principles with my circumstances, and might have voted for her.
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TheAmazingAtheist
I've actually watched a few of his videos, overall, he was too abrasive for me, I prefer a more open stance. Some channels I am subscribed to are

QualiaSoup, SisyphusRedeemed, cdk007, ZOMGitsCriss, Thunderf00t
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I also like pennsays, that is the channel of Penn Jillette (the guy from Penn & Teller).
I have actually watched all his videos on religion My folks watched one of his in church (they are religious) one time, and told me about it, so I went and watched them all. I also enjoy both his yt channel, and the BS show.
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One thing that I love about YouTube is how many different kinds of people you find there. You have a ton of libertarians, a lot of anarachists, a few communits, some neo-Nazis, even white supremacists, so on and so forth. People you would never hear on TV because they are too crazy, but on YouTube you can find all these people and watch what they had to say. So YouTube turns into a true marketplace of ideas.
I completely agree, and it is a marketplace of ideas for everything, not just philosophy and politics, my mother is taking up photography, I went and found her 3 channels aimed at helping beginners figure out what they are doing.

Education is greatly enhanced by youtube, Berkeley has begun recording and posting videos for their courses onto youtube (YouTube - ucberkeleyevents's Channel), I am actually watching through one on Ruby on Rails right now.

Anyway, I'm quite encouraged by this, thank you.
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Old May 16th, 2009, 01:00 AM
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By truth, I simply mean the actual state and relationship between states of any given thing. (I just made that up, it seems to represent my position right now, but I reserve the right to shift that definition if a flaw is noted)
That presupposes that there is a thing to have a state, whatever that might be.

CB
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Old May 16th, 2009, 02:23 AM
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That presupposes that there is a thing to have a state, whatever that might be.

CB
Yes, and I accept that I could be incorrect, because my understanding of the state of a thing, while it is my best approximation of the actual state of the thing, is not necessarily true. In fact, as you point out, the thing may not even exist, in which case, my best approximation is guaranteed to be incorrect.

As an example, I would offer morality, which I believe many people try to adhere to as best as they can, yet (according to my best approximation of the truth) probably does not exist.
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Old May 16th, 2009, 03:22 AM
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Yes, and I accept that I could be incorrect, because my understanding of the state of a thing, while it is my best approximation of the actual state of the thing, is not necessarily true. In fact, as you point out, the thing may not even exist, in which case, my best approximation is guaranteed to be incorrect.

As an example, I would offer morality, which I believe many people try to adhere to as best as they can, yet (according to my best approximation of the truth) probably does not exist.
Abstract "things" exist if I believe they do.

(they may also be located in Plato's cave, but you will have to ask him yourself about that)

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Old May 16th, 2009, 10:27 AM
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Capitalism is an inherent good if the government and statists/collectivists didn't interfere with how capitalism is meant to work.
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Old May 16th, 2009, 11:37 AM
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Abstract "things" exist if I believe they do.

(they may also be located in Plato's cave, but you will have to ask him yourself about that)

CB
I am assuming you are saying that if you believe it, then there is an "it" you believe, and thus a thing must exist (basically the Ontological argument). And thought is itself a form of creation, I agree. I was of the opinion, however, that it was fairly clear what I meant. I could, perhaps make it better by modifying the statement to something like this.

"By truth, I simply mean the actual state and relationship between states of the instance of any given idea."

In programming terms:
instance_of_thing = Idea_of_thing.new(state_of_thing)

Where truth is the value of state_of_thing, and in fact, state_of_thing may itself be nil/null (nonexistent). In this case, the domain I say we must respect would be the scope that instance_of_thing is declared within. You can have a hundred variable i's, declared in different methods, but you can only have one as a class variable. It's value would be the actual truth, each method would be individuals like you and I, your value of i may differ from mine, and both of ours may differ from the class variable's.
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Capitalism is an inherent good if the government and statists/collectivists didn't interfere with how capitalism is meant to work.
I honestly see this as little different from "sin is an inherent good if the gods didn't interfere with how it is meant to work" (an allegory).
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Old May 16th, 2009, 11:50 AM
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Capitalism is not a sin. Capitalism/economic liberty are possibly the greatest things that anyone can hope for.
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Old May 16th, 2009, 12:24 PM
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Capitalism is not a sin. Capitalism/economic liberty are possibly the greatest things that anyone can hope for.
I did not say it was a sin (I intentionally called it allegory). Your argument can never persuade me, because it requires that I already agree with you, which I obviously do not.
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Old May 16th, 2009, 12:47 PM
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I have actually watched all his (Penn) videos on religion My folks watched one of his in church (they are religious) one time, and told me about it, so I went and watched them all. I also enjoy both his yt channel, and the BS show.
Haha, a lot of churches played his video that he posted on YouTube because he said some kind things. Check out his channel again a few days ago he commented on this phenomenon that happened.
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