Math Help Forum

Math Help Forum Feed Site Feed

Go Back   Math Help Forum > University Math Help > Discrete Mathematics, Set Theory and Logic
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 31st, 2009, 07:30 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10
Country:
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
feliks0 is on a distinguished road
Default A Set Theory Proof

Hello,

This is my first time posting a question on this forum and I am a newbie in the field of discrete mathematics.
I uploaded question number 9a which I've been trying to solve for the last 3 days without much success, as well as my attempt at solving it.

Any suggestions would be welcome!
Attached Thumbnails
set-theory-proof-p1010178.jpg  set-theory-proof-p1010179.jpg  set-theory-proof-p1010180.jpg  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old October 31st, 2009, 07:57 AM
MHF Contributor

 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,662
Thanks: 88
Thanked 2,843 Times in 2,608 Posts
Plato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond repute
Default

You want to prove that (A\cup C)\cap(B\cup C')\subseteq (A\cup B).
I would do it by contradiction.
Suppose that t\in (A\cup C)\cap(B\cup C')~\&~t \notin(A\cup B).
Then that means that t\notin A~\&~t\notin B.

From which we get t\in (A\cup C)~\&~t\notin A so t\in C.

Also we get t\in (B\cup C')~\&~t\notin B so t\in C'.

Do you see the contradiction?
Reply With Quote
The following users thank Plato for this useful post:
Donate to MHF
  #3  
Old October 31st, 2009, 09:50 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10
Country:
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
feliks0 is on a distinguished road
Default

First of all, let me thank you for your kind help.

If I got your idea right, then since t cannot be both an element of C and an element of the complement of C, we deduce that the opposite is correct concerning the first line. That is, the left side is a subset of the right side.

I was trying to get to having the same expressions on both sides of the equation by using the consistency principle, since that is what is expected from me. Elegant solutions never hurt anyone though.

Thank you once more!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old October 31st, 2009, 10:23 AM
MHF Contributor

 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,662
Thanks: 88
Thanked 2,843 Times in 2,608 Posts
Plato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond reputePlato has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by feliks0 View Post
I was trying to get to having the same expressions on both sides of the equation by using the consistency principle, since that is what is expected from me.
First this is not an equation. Moreover, it turnout to be rather messy to expand the LHS.
I am not sure that is really the best way to proceed. I did not see a way to do it easily.
There is a simple demonstration using Venn diagrams.
To use the ‘pick-a-point’ proof may be the best alterative to what I posted.
Actually I came to the posted proof as a result of starting out that way.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old October 31st, 2009, 10:56 AM
Failure's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 131
Country:
Thanks: 0
Thanked 70 Times in 65 Posts
Failure will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato View Post
First this is not an equation. Moreover, it turnout to be rather messy to expand the LHS.
Expanding the LHS doesn't look so bad. What about the following
\begin{array}{lcl}(A\cup C)\cap (B\cup C')&=&A\cap (B\cup C')\cup C\cap (B\cup C')\\
&=& A\cap (B\cup C')\cup C\cap B\cup C\cap C'
\end{array}
(Assuming the convention that \cap binds more strongly than \cup, of course.)
Now we have decomposed the original LHS into a union of three sets, the first is a subset of A (since intersecting A with any other set gives a subset of A), the second is a subset of B (again, because this is an intersection of B with another set) and the third is the empty set. Hence the whole union is contained in the union of A and B.
More formally, this is last step uses the following general rule: If X\subseteq Z and Y\subseteq Z then X\cup Y \subseteq Z. Which is just another way of saying that \cup is a "least upper bound" operator in the boolean lattice of subsets of a given universal set: if Z is an upper bound for both X and Y then it is also an upper bound for X\cup Y.
Similarly, intersection of sets is a "greatest lower bound" operator in that boolean lattice.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old November 1st, 2009, 07:55 AM
oldguynewstudent's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: St. Louis Area
Posts: 54
Country:
Thanks: 25
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
oldguynewstudent is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure View Post
Expanding the LHS doesn't look so bad. What about the following
\begin{array}{lcl}(A\cup C)\cap (B\cup C')&=&A\cap (B\cup C')\cup C\cap (B\cup C')\\&=& A\cap (B\cup C')\cup C\cap B\cup C\cap C'\end{array}
(Assuming the convention that \cap binds more strongly than \cup, of course.)
Now we have decomposed the original LHS into a union of three sets, the first is a subset of A (since intersecting A with any other set gives a subset of A), the second is a subset of B (again, because this is an intersection of B with another set) and the third is the empty set. Hence the whole union is contained in the union of A and B.
More formally, this is last step uses the following general rule: If X\subseteq Z and Y\subseteq Z then X\cup Y \subseteq Z. Which is just another way of saying that \cup is a "least upper bound" operator in the boolean lattice of subsets of a given universal set: if Z is an upper bound for both X and Y then it is also an upper bound for X\cup Y.
Similarly, intersection of sets is a "greatest lower bound" operator in that boolean lattice.
I have gotten so much help from this website and the wonderful people here. I can follow Failure's elegant proof. What my professor was looking for from my class was more of a continuation and definition oriented proof.

A\cap (B\cup C')\cup C\cap B\cup C\cap C'

= A \cap B \cup (C' \cup C) \cap B \cup \emptyset

= A \cap B \cup \mho \cap B

= A \cap B \cup B = A \cap B

= { x | x \epsilon (A AND B) }

= { x | x \epsilon A AND x \epsilon B }

\forall x, x \epsilon A OR x \epsilon B which is the definition of a subset.

Failure's proof is much more elegant not to mention shorter. However if you're just beginning with the definitions etc. this may be more what your professor is looking for. I also hope I got it right!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old November 1st, 2009, 11:13 AM
Failure's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 131
Country:
Thanks: 0
Thanked 70 Times in 65 Posts
Failure will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldguynewstudent View Post
I have gotten so much help from this website and the wonderful people here. I can follow Failure's elegant proof. What my professor was looking for from my class was more of a continuation and definition oriented proof.

A\cap (B\cup C')\cup C\cap B\cup C\cap C'

= A \cap B \cup (C' \cup C) \cap B \cup \emptyset
I don't see how you get this from the preceding line, I must admit.

Quote:

= A \cap B \cup \mho \cap B

= A \cap B \cup B {\color{red}\overset{?}{=}} A \cap B
One thing I believe to know for sure: (A\cap B)\cup B = B so something is amiss here.

Quote:
= { x | x \epsilon (A AND B) }

= { x | x \epsilon A AND x \epsilon B }

\forall x, x \epsilon A OR x \epsilon B which is the definition of a subset.

Failure's proof is much more elegant not to mention shorter. However if you're just beginning with the definitions etc. this may be more what your professor is looking for. I also hope I got it right!
Reply With Quote
The following users thank Failure for this useful post:
Donate to MHF
  #8  
Old November 1st, 2009, 03:53 PM
oldguynewstudent's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: St. Louis Area
Posts: 54
Country:
Thanks: 25
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
oldguynewstudent is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure View Post
I don't see how you get this from the preceding line, I must admit.


One thing I believe to know for sure: (A\cap B)\cup B = B so something is amiss here.
I am still learning this and prone to mistakes. Perhaps I misinterpreted C', which I took to be the complement of C.

In that case, C \cap C' would be the null set by the complement law.

Then by the associative propery, (B \cup C') \cup C = B \cup (C' \cup C).

Of course B \cup null = B

And it looks like I made a mistake in the last line. I had mistakenly taken B \cup B first instead of using the absorbtion law.

Thank you again for your expert help! And please continue to critique. It is the best way to learn.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
©2005 - 2009 Math Help Forum


Math Help Forum is a community of maths forums with an emphasis on maths help in all levels of mathematics.
Register to post your math questions or just hang out and try some of our math games or visit the arcade.